Torchwood 2.12

[janne_d]

And once again I say OMFG Torchwood!

Pop quiz: why is watching Torchwood like waiting for a bus?

Because you wait all season for backstory and then you get four lots at once.

That was... that was bloody good and kind of ripped my heart out a few times.

So, in order:

Jack - 1329 (or was it 1325?) deaths back

I liked how we got his timeframe in 132something deaths ago rather than years, that was nice and morbid. But what was up with the kinky women? They were kind of scary and they were definitely getting off on the torturing there. No wonder Jack didn't want to work for Torchwood at first: they dislike the Doctor, they torture and they kill for no good reason. I really liked how it was the return of the creepy girl from Reset that pushed him into working with them because she told him how long he'd have to wait for the Doctor to turn up. I did wonder if she was connected to the kinky ladies, but I don't know. She could just be creepy on her own.

But it was interesting to see that Jack didn't really approve of how they worked from the start and that (unlike most fan assumptions) didn't insert himself into the organisation to find the Doctor - that presumably became a bonus for him, but that wasn't the original reason.

Poor Jack though coming back to find the rest of the team dead. Killed by Alex - presumably Alex Hopkins who wrote the report from 1998 on the sleeper cells - and that is what put Jack in charge of TW3 because apparently he was just a field agent before that. I wonder what Alex saw, especially since he seems to be the source of Jack's catchphrase. Or I suppose that could be the other way around and Alex was twisting it. But no wonder Jack wants things to run differently under him.

Tosh - 5 years back

Okay, this would be one of the ones that ripped my heart out. Jack's wasn't exactly a barrel of laughs, but oh man, poor Tosh!

I thought at first that she was working for UNIT when she stole the plans but that didn't make any sense once it turned out it was from the Ministry of Defence. No wonder she saw her mother in End of Days, there is clearly a lot of guilt and love there. I hope that bitch who blackmailed Tosh got locked up for life too. Though, wow, UNIT was being a bit draconian. I doubt the Doctor would approve of that kind of behaviour. I thought the jump cuts of Tosh in her cell were very effectively demoralising - I was thoroughly relieved when Jack turned up. Interesting bargain that she got: did I hear Jack giving her a term of 5 years to work for him? That means it is almost up. I loved how they showed just how very smart Tosh is by showing she fixed the plans as she went.

Ianto - 21 months back

I'll just take a moment to be completely shallow and go "Ianto in jeans! And a wee necklace thing! Wheee!"

And I'm back. What I thought was interesting there was Ianto stalked Jack and Jack initially didn't want to know, most especially perhaps because Ianto had been TW1. But it kind of hurt to hear Ianto begging for a chance, because we know now it was because of Lisa that he is so desperate. And Ianto flirts right from the start, complimenting Jack's coat, reaching out to touch him all the time... very interesting, particularly how the last time he's switched images and is in a suit. For hunting a pterodactyl. Because he's noticed Jack likes vintage? Or are the suits Ianto's armour and he needs that then for his last ditch attempt? And very smart how he gets Jack back with the hook of the pterodactyl and a Rift monitor. I loved, loved, loved the line about how he could be a butler because that does fit Ianto beautifully, and I also loved that Ianto is still making his pitch crowded into Jack while they face down a pterodactyl. Oh, and apparently Jack naturally smells good - nice to know. It was also nice to know that Ianto is a dark chocolate kind of guy; he has taste though possibly a weird idea of pterodactyls. Probably not any weirder than Jack trying to flirt it into cooperating, mind.

But most interesting moment of this section was possibly all the rolling around. Not just for the nice visuals, but for Ianto's reaction. He and Jack are laughing, they've been getting on and working together, Ianto ends up on top - and then he recoils and when he's walking away it looked like he had tears in his eyes. Why? Because the connection with Jack is already too much for him - does he feel like he's betrayed Lisa, however briefly, or is he regretting that he's about to use Jack?

Owen - 4 years ago

And this would be the one that really broke me. Right from the moment we saw happy, loving Owen I just knew something awful was going to happen to turn him into serial dating and cynical Owen. I admit, I initially thought his fiancee would have been having an affair and that would push him off the rails, probably due to the fanon about him being barred as a doctor for misconduct - guess that was a wrong assumption too - but what they did was so much worse, and the signalled it so slowly at first before the brick to the head of realising she was really ill. From that point on, I was just waiting for her to die and it was quite horrible to watch Owen try to save her and fail. I didn't see it coming that it would be for alien reasons, but I probably should have. What better motivation for Owen to join Torchwood after all?



Much to my surprise, everyone actually survived their explosive device. And then the last kick in the teeth - John Hart is back, and he's going to tear Jack's world apart. Talk about not being able to let go! I get the feeling the finale is going to be fairly cataclysmic.

And we have to wait until 4th April to see it! *wails*

Comments

[torakowalski.livejournal.com]

*flails* that was such a fantastic episode.

No surprise that the Ianto bit was my favourite, but even despite the mmmm, very nice Ianto in jeans and necklace/Ianto giggling with Jack/Ianto on top of Jack I thought it was really well done. I loved the way that Lisa was there in everything Ianto did but the writers didn't feel the need to beat us over the head with it and that it was all there in GDL's eyes every time he wasn't looking directly at Jack.

We have to wait 'til April 4th? Really?

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

They were all so fascinating I can't decided which was the favourite!

rivier pointed out the resonance for Tosh with the line in Countrycide about there being no cell she couldn't break out of, plus how freaked she was at being called a spy in CJH.

The Ianto/Jack just got so complicated by the fact that Jack was not receptive to Ianto throwing himself at him to start with - and imagine watching Cyberwoman again with that backstory in mind, explains so much about Jack being so pissed off.

And Owen... just made me want to hug him. He's almost stolen chief woobie status just from having that past - it explains why he can be so bitter and angry about TW too for not saving her.

It was all just so perfect for all of them, I still can't quite believe it.

We have to wait 'til April 4th? Really?

They're not showing them on BBC3 now, so we have to wait for BBC2 to catch up. So next Fri they'll show Fragments and the week after will be the finale. Grr.

[torakowalski.livejournal.com]

The Ianto/Jack just got so complicated by the fact that Jack was not receptive to Ianto throwing himself at him to start with

God, yes. Ianto had to win him over rather than the other way around and then to find that he was being played must have been such a blow for Jack. *mutters* and it totally backed up the pre-Cyberwoman relationship that I gave them in Choice so, uh, yay.

So next Fri they'll show Fragments and the week after will be the finale. Grr.

Definitely grr! Still, I'm kind of ridiculously excited to rewatch Fragments so it's not all bad...

Oh and also because I haven't got to say it anywhere else yet: naked kissing in Adrift!

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

it totally backed up the pre-Cyberwoman relationship that I gave them in Choice

Yeah it did - go you with your scary prescience!

I will definitely be rewatching this episode on Fri, and possibly before then as well. I'm getting a little worried about whether one of them will die in the finale though!

naked kissing in Adrift!

Hoorah for naked kissing! Let the nation rejoice! (I certainly did). And Ianto's little smile when he says "he cheats, he always cheats". *sigh* Good times.

part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Pop quiz: why is watching Torchwood like waiting for a bus?

Because you wait all season for backstory and then you get four lots at once.

Ooh, great analogy - and so true!

that was bloody good and kind of ripped my heart out a few times.

It really did. Sometimes it ripped my heart out in double-doses in quick succession. Tosh particularly.

I did wonder if she was connected to the kinky ladies, but I don't know. She could just be creepy on her own.

My guess is that the kinky ladies don't know about her. What she and the Torchwood women have in common is that she and they, like Jack, know about the Doctor. Does this mean Tarot Girl is a power in the Doctor's favour? Will we ever know?

Jack ... didn't insert himself into the organisation to find the Doctor - that presumably became a bonus for him, but that wasn't the original reason.

It was a logical assumption, but at that point Jack knew much more about the Doctor than Torchwood did. Jack is a brilliant opportunist; he saw a way of making a virtue of necessity and made Torchwood into his tool. Interesting that he didn't try to take over - until Alex forced it on him.

what was up with the kinky women?

Well - they were scary and sadistic. Think of them as sane Victorian female versions of the Master.

they dislike the Doctor, they torture and they kill for no good reason.

I think this was also a comment on the anti-alien prejudices of the Victorian age: aliens were evil and to be killed, and it wasn't a kind age. (Of course, there is no kind age, as evidenced by the tactics of current-day UNIT.) Jack has a different perspective - Jack likes aliens. Sometimes he loves them. And especially post-Doctor, he doesn't like to see unnecessary killing.

Killed by Alex - presumably Alex Hopkins who wrote the report from 1998 on the sleeper cells -

Yes, I thought it was great to actually see him - I felt 'set up' in the best possible way. An abstract name becomes a living character.

Is that what he saw in the future that freaked him - the Sleepers coming awake?

UNIT was being a bit draconian.

A bit? The part about 'disciplining' prisoners gave me a real chill. Perhaps UNIT is being run by the kinky Torchwood women. Let's hope they aren't immortal! ooh, lots of plot possibilities with those two...! Did they have names?

he seems to be the source of Jack's catchphrase. Or I suppose that could be the other way around and Alex was twisting it.

I think Jack must have taught it to Alex, since Jack is the one with the true memory of the future. We don't know whether what Alex saw in his gadget was a true vision or fast. His thing reminded me of the watch-fob used by the Doctor and the Master - it would be just like the Master to plant false visions.

Interesting bargain that she got: did I hear Jack giving her a term of 5 years to work for him? That means it is almost up.

Yes. Does anyone think Tosh will leave Torchwood now? Well, she might, just because this show keeps finding ways to surprise me - and simultaneously convincing me.

Re: part 1

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

My guess is that the kinky ladies don't know about her

I think it is likely she isn't connected, but when I was watching the episode the timing did seem very convenient. The kinky twosome send Jack off to think overnight and he runs straight into Tarot Girl whose comments send him straight back to Torchwood.

Does this mean Tarot Girl is a power in the Doctor's favour?

Ooh, interesting idea.

I've seen some comments on Jack's backstory and how it doesn't fit with other snippets we've seen in canon - I don't remember anything that wouldn't fit with him being a kind of freelance agent for TW initially (didn't kinky lady 1 write something about him being uncontracted on his file?) and then getting more involved over the years. But I'm not sure I remember all the other hints we've had.

sane Victorian female versions of the Master.

Yikes!

I think this was also a comment on the anti-alien prejudices of the Victorian age: aliens were evil and to be killed, and it wasn't a kind age.

That ties into why Victoria set them up as well. They are there to protect the empire from the scum of the universe, not to makes friends. I wonder if Jack made any attempts to change those views over the years.

I felt 'set up' in the best possible way. An abstract name becomes a living character.

That was very cool how they used the name - I went "ooh!" when Jack said it.

I think Jack must have taught it to Alex, since Jack is the one with the true memory of the future. We don't know whether what Alex saw in his gadget was a true vision

I wonder if what he saw was the year that never was. Whatever it was, it must have been horrific to make him think killing the others was an act of mercy. That glimpse of the locket was very suspicious I thought, though I didn't get as far as thinking it might have been planted to give false visions. That's a neat idea.

Does anyone think Tosh will leave Torchwood now?

I would say no. If we go back to Countrycide, we've got Ianto saying that she enjoys the adrenaline, and I think that is probably true. She's got interesting work, top technology to work on, Jack trusts her, she has contact with her family so it looks like she's just a normal employee now rather than serving a term. But as you say, they could surprise us.

Re: part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

the timing did seem very convenient. The kinky twosome send Jack off to think overnight and he runs straight into Tarot Girl whose comments send him straight back to Torchwood.

I think the timing was not on the part of the Torchwood ladies, but on the part of Tarot Girl, who knew exactly when and where to find Jack at the most opportune moment to make a difference in his fate.

I've seen some comments on Jack's backstory and how it doesn't fit with other snippets we've seen in canon

What are they thinking of? Looks to me like a good fit. He has travelled, yes, but we know the UK has been his base for most of the time. He has been in the army a few times, and several different wars, but that isn't incompatible with being in Torchwood. Not at all.

didn't kinky lady 1 write something about him being uncontracted on his file?

Yes, and this accords with the tone of Alex's report which implies that Jack wasn't like the other Torchwood agents. They knew he was immortal: that sets him apart from the beginning. He isn't like the others.

I wonder if Jack made any attempts to change those views over the years.

I think he has made headway, and we see it in Torchwood. They don't kill Weevils unless they have to, for example. Torchwood 1 persecuted aliens but under Jack, Torchwood 3 doesn't.

I wonder if what he saw was the year that never was.

Oooh - brilliant thought! Yes! The fact that the gadget was reminiscent of the watch would indicate that there's a connection. And of course Alex would despair and go mad.

Re: part 1

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

I think the timing was not on the part of the Torchwood ladies, but on the part of Tarot Girl

Ah yes, that would make sense. I really would like to know more about her, I hope that if it gets a 3rd series that's one of the threads they pick up.

that isn't incompatible with being in Torchwood. Not at all. [...] Jack wasn't like the other Torchwood agents. They knew he was immortal: that sets him apart from the beginning. He isn't like the others

Yeah, I didn't think so, but I wondered if I was missing something. Though I find the idea of Jack having files in TW and Alex knowing he's immortal interesting because in S1 none of the team knows these things. Maybe only the leader gets clued in on the immortality and Jack got rid of all his old files when he became in charge, or something.

Re: part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I really would like to know more about her, I hope that if it gets a 3rd series that's one of the threads they pick up.

Yes. They seem seem to be leaving a lot of interesting hooks, and she's one of the best.

find the idea of Jack having files in TW and Alex knowing he's immortal interesting because in S1 none of the team knows these
things.

When Alex and the others all died, Jack had another chance to reinvent himself and Torchwood, starting fresh. I think Jack burned all those files except the photos he wanted to kee, which he kept in that tin box in his drawer. Possibly Torchwood Three never shared their information about Jack with Torchwood One. Possibly, even if they did, all that information was destroyed at the Battle of Canary Wharf - or after it, by Jack himself. I think when Jack's people (Suzie and himself?) were picking up the alien tech they wanted from Torchwood One, they took the opportunity to destroy things they didn't want seen or found.

part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"Ianto in jeans! And a wee necklace thing! Wheee!"

Was that his general style of dressing, or was he trying to catch Jack's eye? Perhaps at that point he didn't even care. It seems that all his actions and words at that stage were an interesting combination of policy, truth and deception.

And Ianto flirts right from the start

I liked that, and it made the stopwatch scene seem much less "out of the blue" and more like a natural development - whatever hiccoughs their relationship might have developed along the way.

particularly how the last time he's switched images and is in a suit. For hunting a pterodactyl. Because he's noticed Jack likes vintage? Or are the suits Ianto's armour and he needs that then for his last ditch attempt?

Both, perhaps. He wasn't exactly successful with his first approach, in jeans, so he tries another style.

apparently Jack naturally smells good - nice to know

Mmm, pheromones. Part of his weapons arsenal. And nice to see that there's been some change in humanity between now and the 51st century. I'm not sure about the 'torso of steel' - might that be a physical development as well? We haven't ever seen Jack working out, which of course doesn't mean he doesn't.

Because the connection with Jack is already too much for him - does he feel like he's betrayed Lisa, however briefly, or is he regretting that he's about to use Jack?

Both, perhaps? It didn't occur to me that he thought he might be betraying Lisa - not yet - but that he really likes Jack, even to the point of feeling a physical attraction for him, and knows he's just setting him up and using him (or trying to) and he doesn't like that he has to do that.

I admit, I initially thought his fiancee would have been having an affair and that would push him off the rails, probably due to the fanon about him being barred as a doctor for misconduct - guess that was a wrong assumption too -

Yes! It was such fun to be so totally wrong on that!

what they did was so much worse, and the signalled it so slowly at first before the brick to the head of realising she was really ill.

That was so sad. But it makes a good counterpoint to "Adrift", showing the effect of alien or Rift activity on people who have nothing to do with Torchwood, they're just living their lives, and unexplainable tragedy hits them.

Much to my surprise, everyone actually survived their explosive device

Really? Who did you think would die?

I get the feeling the finale is going to be fairly cataclysmic.

You think?

Re: part 2

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Was that his general style of dressing, or was he trying to catch Jack's eye?

I swear I've seen either footage or stills of GDL wearing the kind of outfit he wore to give Jack coffee, particularly the necklace. I think that he was trying to catch Jack's eye, and then changed tactics. I'm actually coming around to the suits being Ianto's general style from that comment about his dad being a master tailor, and that the trendier image was the falser front. Though I still do like the idea that it is partly in response to Jack's style.

We haven't ever seen Jack working out, which of course doesn't mean he doesn't

Maybe Ianto is his exercise regime... "work to do". Heh. Or maybe he exercises when he doesn't sleep.

Both, perhaps? It didn't occur to me that he thought he might be betraying Lisa

I think it is probably both. I think he was rocked by realising that he actually was attracted to Jack as well - I don't think he was expecting that - so I think he would have felt guilt over being attracted to anyone when his girlfriend is in such a position as well as guilt over the plan to use TW 3.

Yes! It was such fun to be so totally wrong on that!

I think I saw on someone else's reaction that it originally came from a TW website - I bet it isn't there anymore! So maybe it wasn't entirely fanon and they've retconned Owen a better past - and I like that they did.

it makes a good counterpoint to "Adrift", showing the effect of alien or Rift activity on people who have nothing to do with Torchwood

Yeah, and it is always such a bad effect! Can we have an episode where a normal person has something good happen because of the Rift, please?

Really? Who did you think would die?

Not really sure. I just didn't think it was likely that they could all survive such close explosions and the buliding collapsing. I was most worried about Tosh, I think - and I still am for next week. Possibly because the character has had so little to do since TTLM. I am also very worried about Rhys, and the possibilities of what John Hart could do to Owen are pretty bad. I don't think they'll kill off Gwen or Ianto at this point.

You think?

Eh. It's just a wild theory. ;-)

Re: part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I swear I've seen either footage or stills of GDL wearing the kind of outfit he wore to give Jack coffee, particularly the necklace.

That adds to the charm of it.

I'm actually coming around to the suits being Ianto's general style from that comment about his dad being a master tailor, and that the trendier image was the falser front.

Remember how we were talking about images and lies and disguises becoming the real thing? I think it might have been a case of that. Ianto was - as we see him - and transformed himself to be Alfred to Jack's Batmsn, albeit a false Alfred. And then the transformation because the real man, and he found he was more comfortable as the faithful and competent Torchwood employee than he ever was as himself.

I have a few other thoughts about what makes Ianto tick, but I'll think them through and post them on my LJ.

I still do like the idea that it is partly in response to Jack's style.

I think everything that Ianto has become is in response to Jack. Just as everything Jack has become is in response to the Doctor.

Maybe Ianto is his exercise regime... "work to do".

Undoubtedly!

Or maybe he exercises when he doesn't sleep.

I've always thought that. But they've never said so.

I think he was rocked by realising that he actually was attracted to Jack as well - I don't think he was expecting that -

Yes, I agree. And Ianto is essentially honest: the knowledge that he was setting Jack up must have been hard for him.

So maybe it wasn't entirely fanon and they've retconned Owen a better past - and I like that they did.

I like it too. His going from 'good doctor' to 'the opposite of what he was' is more poignant, and more powerful.

I was most worried about Tosh, I think - and I still am for next week.

I'd hate to loose Tosh. But I think that if they killed off anyone, it would be her.

I am also very worried about Rhys, and the possibilities of what John Hart could do to Owen are pretty bad.

Scary thoughts!

Re: part 2

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

images and lies and disguises becoming the real thing

Yeah, I like that. It starts as a front and then becomes real.

Scary thoughts!

I'm getting kind of worried about the things my brain has come up with for Owen - it just ran off on its own going "break all his bones, dismemberment, put out his eyes and ears and tongue and leave him trapped in his own head through sensory deprivation" - I mean, whoa. That was my brain? I don't even like darkfic!

Re: part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Maybe the whole "living dead" aspect tends to make a person think of the morbid where Owen is concerned?